Church attendance continues to decline in Canada, but religious beliefs among Canadians remain as strong as they were a decade ago, according to an Ipsos Reid poll conducted during April 2006. Six in ten Canadians believe that "through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus, God provided the way for the forgiveness of sins," but only 17% reported regular church attendance of at least once a week--a dip of 4% over the last decade."There's a huge gap between those who believe and those who belong," said Andrew Grenville, senior vice president of the polling firm. "There are three times as many believers as there are regular attenders." (From Leadership Network)
Personally, I can't separate my faith in God from my connection with the church. As a follower of Christ, I can't imagine myself growing in faith apart from community.
Thoughts?
8 comments:
Hey, Dave.
You raise interesting thoughts. The statistics tell us something about PoMo Christianity. I remember growing up, I would often hear the words: "It's not about going to Church, but about having a personal relationship with Jesus."
Unfortunately, that statement is only half true (if you're simply a theist) and completely false from a Christian point of view. In the last year, it hasn't been easy for me to integrate myself within one particular community of faith (although Christianity was never much of a problem). It means a lot to me, because it makes all the difference. Truth be told, belonging has everything to do with it.
As Christians, we believe that as a Church, we embody Christ -- a pretty deep thing to say, even for one of the most respected apostles! If my history of proto-Orthodoxy, Orthodoxy and of the Church Fathers/Mothers serve me right, there hasn't been a moment where we've divorced the presence of our Lord from the ongoing community of saints.
What does this tell us? For one, I think that the people who leave Church and want nothing to do with God are theologians in their own right. They understand that the Christian God has everything to do with the Church.
Secondly, those who profess Christ, but do not take part of the body, are quite misinformed concerning what it means to be a Christian; where St. Cyprian was coming from when he likened God and the Church to Father and Mother...etc.
I see where you're coming from, and both observations above point to the kinds of people that keep ministers like you with a mission and a lot of work! :)
Again, very interesting thoughts!
Camardicus
Good memory Carlo: "It's not about going to Church, but about having a personal relationship with Jesus."
We've heard it too many times, and I've been at fault of sometimes saying it too. It's the farthest thing from the truth.
1. 'personal relationship' is not in the bible, though I don't see it as wrong, it's just not biblical language
2. it makes faith in Jesus so individualistic
Interesting what you say about people who choose to leave the church - they eminate a belief in their own right, yes. They rightly choose they cannot follow Jesus apart from the church so they leave both. At least they are honest.
(although there's probably people who've been hurt from the church and haven't reconnected yet)
In my own growing thoughts about spiritual formation, I just can't see it possible without community.
My heart also grieves for people who somehow believe they are connecting to Christ without connecting in community. Even those who sporadically attend a church service, or attend regularly but disconnect themselves from deeper community. It's more then just relationships, it's the relationship we allow the church to have with us as well.
Last question: what will you do about your dilema?
Thanks for reponding... I really appreciate your thoughts
Dave,
I wouldn't exactly call it a dilemma (haha), but a matter of taking more steps forward. For the last few months, I've committed myself to attend one particular parish for mid-week worship. I'm at the point where I participate freely there.
I'm slowly getting more involved, and I really appreciate the fellowship as well. Having a meal with the community and getting to know each other by name makes all the difference. Coming together and praying for each other's concerns also has a way of bringing the community together. Being a part of that is great.
Now, it's mostly a matter of going to one church on Sundays, and attending faithfully. Some of it has to do with testing the waters and taking my time, but a lot of it has to do with not making the effort to wake up early. It's a matter of doing -- talking will only get me so far. That's one thing I've learned in the past 11 months.
I've also learned that we all need that time in the desert, BUT... we can't forget that we can (spiritually) die there. The desert is the real deal, man. Some never get out of there alive. I count myself fortunate for having family and friends who love God, and have been able to support me in my faith throughout the years. They've done so through intercession and, just by being there for me.
We've been in Church our whole lives. It's easy to take that for granted, to forget how living in the community of God comes to us naturally in many ways. Not everyone has that. This further confirms our mission in the world, to respond to people with God's love, through his life-giving Spirit. The journey starts somewhere, and I think that it begins with the community. You hit the nail on the head on that one! Thank you!
Best,
Camardicus
The Desert! WOW, that's a good and bad place to be. Jesus could only hack it for 40 days. OK, so I'm stretching the point, there other purposes for that. But I appreciate your honesty here. It's true, many have gone into introspection to find themselves never coming out of it. I know a few examples of this. Good to see your awareness here.
Interesting how you brought mission into this. The good news is not only about the future or one's salvation, but about being brought into God's community. How many don't know what they're missing, and our role as a community is to invite people into it, so they might experience what we're experiencing. It's not perfect, but it's good. I think of the teenager who can't appreciate his family at certain moments - the boundaries, discipline, etc. - until he meets someone without a family. Ah, the difference.
Good chatting so far... feel free to add more to the discussion.
Question for you: you mentioned your connecting on a mid-week level - which is great. But you're not at a week-end level. Is there a difference? Can't you connect with them on the week-end too? Is there something more you're looking for that the mid-week doesn't offer? Id' love to hear your thoughts on this, b/c I think about this stuff all the time.
Ciao for now.... good seeing you on the week-end too.
Dave,
To quote J.D. Crossan, "Heaven's in great shape; earth is where the problems are." Many of us, at one point or another, realize that there's more to salvation than simply going to heaven when this life is over. Christianity is about fullness of life, which is not exclusive to the place past the pearly gates, although it may be the best thing yet.
Contrary to a lot of individualist ideologies, we are born connected into community, in one way or another. Where we come from and where we go shapes us. It's simply inconceivable for me to think that one can grow as an amputated member. The body suffers, and the member dies.
Speaking of the desert, I got the opportunity to spend the day (Monday) at the monastery in Oka. Man, it's quite the place! Monks are an interesting bunch. It was a nice experience. Personally, I think it's a great place to retreat for prayer and contemplation. One thing I've come to learn, however, is that even monks (meaning: those who "stand alone") live in community, with other brothers. They live disciplined lives, and commit themselves to working on God's schedule (in a sense). They go about their responsibilities, but when the bell rings, they get into gear and spend time in communal prayer, reading and praise. Thus, I can't think of any kind of Christian that is not grafted within a community of faith.
As for weekdays and weekend Church attendance, I found it easier to attend in the week for the simple reason that I'm either at work or at school during that time. I'm downtown so much, and therefore, it is too convenient for me (for the most part). The format is roughly the same as your typical Sunday Communion service in an Anglican Church. Sundays are definitely more colorful, but the idea is the same. One thing I do like about the mid-week evening service is that it combines singing, reading, prayer, Holy Communion, anointing with oil and laying of hands, a little meal and a bible study...
All that in just a couple of hours. There's nothing lacking in the mid-week, really, but Sunday is important. It makes no sense to work on an individualist timetable. There's time to be alone, but that shouldn't be an excuse for ditching the body on Sundays -- haha.
Sunday is the day of the Lord, right? The Church universally gives special attention to God on that day. When I'm not in Church, I definitely feel like I'm missing out. Location, I guess, makes a very big difference. I need to make the effort to get up early for Sunday worship. It's always a struggle, but I never regret doing it.
This discussion is really interesting. I'm sure there's tons we can discuss in person. I'm looking forward to visiting Westside again, and soon. Like I always say, you're a great bunch. Like any Church (or family), conflicts and misunderstandings arise. The beauty, however, is sticking together through good and rough times. You can't beat that!
Best,
Camardicus
carlo,
I like when you say: Many of us, at one point or another, realize that there's more to salvation than simply going to heaven when this life is over. Christianity is about fullness of life, which is not exclusive to the place past the pearly gates, although it may be the best thing yet.
I'm realizing this more and more and seeing more often in Jesus' teaching. john 10:10 - I've come to give you life to the fullest - has clued me in a while ago that eternity starts now. No doubt when God's kgm is fully realized, there'll be nothing like it. But the call of Christ, the good news, starts now - NT wright once said, the climax in history already happened, in the resurrection - the best already is already possible. So life to the fullest can start now.
Too many of us miss out on the great life here, thinking it's only for eternity.
Which church are you going to during the week: emerge or another anglican one. Sounds interesting.
Anytime you want to grab a coffee, let me know.
Dave,
I attended eMerge quite a number of times last year. I've also had coffee with Rev. Brotherwood. They are a cool young adult group, with contemporary worship and social involvement. These days, I've been going to St. James the Apostle, on Bishop (a few steps away from school).
The worship there is liturgical, but not to the extent of chanting the creeds, prayers and readings. I appreciate the "low" and "high" forms of Anglicanism, but St James the Apostle happens to be "middle."
The Anglican Church is colorful in its worship, theology and community-life. It allows for diversity, which at the same time, makes for tension in many ways. It's all good. It's not for everyone -- I can tell you that -- but it's teaching me a whole lot about the Christian tradition(s) and enriching my spirituality in interesting ways. We'll definitely have to do coffee!
Best,
Camardicus
thanks for info... sounds interesting...
let's keep in touch
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